Episode 108- Making It Easy to Engage with Skincare – Adam Ross, CEO and Co-founder of Heyday

Adam, thank you so much for joining us on Building. While Flying Today. Thank you for having me. Of course. Adam Ross is our guest today. He’s the co-founder and c e O of Heyday, which launched its first skincare shot skincare shop in New York City’s nomad neighborhood in 2015, with the belief that everyone should have access to professional skincare services, ultimately taking the facial out of the spa and to local communities across the United States.

So Adam, I will admit, I am. A bit of a novice to this category. I don’t believe I’ve ever had a facial. I think I’ve been to a spa at my honeymoon, which was about 10 years ago. Um, so I’m gonna need some ground floor kind of level of education here. Right. So you talk about decoupling the facial from the spa and building a brand that kind of focuses on that experience for maybe a younger demographic.

So what can you kind of teach me about the way the category was and what led you to seeing that as kind of a white space for heyday? Sure. I, I mean, the indirect question could be, Mickey, what is a, what is a guy doing founding a skincare brand? So, you know, one of my prior chapters was actually in investment banking and I did a lot of mergers and acquisitions.

Ultimately, I. Well within the consumer product and retail sectors, but within beauty more specifically. So a lot of my time was spent over the years working with Lauder, L’Oreal, Avon, Revlon, P and g Gs, so all the big companies. And within that, yeah, Mickey certainly got exposure to a number of different subcategories.

And one of those was, was sparse services. And out of all the categories that I had looked at in my career, I hadn’t come across anything that was. So large, so fragmented and, and structurally disadvantaged. Hmm. And I sort of say that in the, in the way that you and I, if we had more time, we could probably talk about so many other consumer brands and categories where they’ve just been fundamental.

Advances in how they set up to, to be in service for the consumer. Got it. Um, you know, and, and it, it generally comes down to removing friction, points of time, cost, and convenience. But you’ve also gotta do it these days with, with an engaging brand. So I’d say like a great, great example that’s, you know, been used for, for many years, I’d say is, is was Warby Parker.

Right. You know, they, they did such a great job of saying, The eyewear category is so structural, disadvantaged. There’s no way designer frame should be $400, right? There can be a trade off in price without a trade off in quality. Let’s do it with a better shop experience, a better brand experience, um, and set something up that is democratizing to the, to the customer so they’re still money left in their wallet.

So, you know, when I looked at the Spark category, it was operating to a very outdated playbook and it was very female centric. Targeting those women predominantly age 50 or above, that have the time and money to engage with facials. And to your point, you either do it if you’ve got that time or money or as a treat or indulgence to yourself, right?

Whether you get a promotion or you’re on vacation, whatever it is. So, you know, we looked around and, and you know, to our minds in New York, there have been earlier pioneers. Soul Cycle was an early adopter of freeing cycling from the gym. We had a dry bar at the time that was freeing the block from the salon.

We said, heyday, let’s free the facial from the spa. And, and the nuance is a really important one because I think when you hear the word spa, it has this beauty pampering, indulgent connotation, right? Yet when you reposition it in a, in a, in a sh, in an environment like Heyday, which is, you know, unintimidating, gender neutral, design inspired facials are self-care.

Hmm. And it’s one of those ones where, again, the market wasn’t set up because the average facial is, is $200 and it takes a few hours out of your schedule. And it’s just, it’s imbued with these friction points. And to our mind, there was a, there was a younger demographic, but I define that as early twenties to mid forties that wants to have great skin and it’s a service that you can’t replicate at home.

But they think about skincare as self-care, so they think about it in line with their. Their monthly fitness, their vitamins, their beverages, right, their mental health, like whatever goes into people’s self-care, um, you know, investment every month. And, and skincare was noticeably absent. So we set out to, to change that at a price that again, sort of encourage routine and repetition, knowing that that access to professional facials is gonna get your, your skin to a whole new level.

And what that, that access to professionals, I guess You mean you talk about facials being more of an, an indulge and not something you can necessarily do at home. Yeah. Um, have you seen that, have you seen kind of the dis discourse change around that at all? In the light of like, Instagram, TikTok being places where people are going and learning about things that like.

Were more challenging to learn about in the Sure. And, you know, than in the past? No, it’s, it’s a good question. I, I think, I think consumer spending and where they spend has certainly changed post, post covid. Hmm. And I think, I think what is advantageous to a brand like Kday, where, where we’re anchored with aestheticians, and that’s someone that has to do Mickey generally speaking, a 600 hour state certified course, but they use, they’re using, they use products that are professionally strength, so they’re not.

They’re not available to people like you and me. So they, you know, so they can, they can supercharge results and, and basically what a facial will do is, you know, your skin cells renew every 28 days. But what we see with a lot of people is they’re applying skincare products at home, but they’re applying it across dead skin cells, so the products aren’t absorbing.

Hmm. And what a, what a facials gonna do is it’s gonna, it’s gonna gently exfoliate. It’s gonna cleanse all that dead skin cells. Off, which leaves your skin tone totally, totally fresh and ready to be plumped with like, serums, toners, oils, moisturizers. So your skin retains that, um, that elasticity, and we get wrinkles because your skin loses that elasticity.

So, yep. It’s, it’s almost like what we do within a heyday sets people up for their home care routines to work, but that a lot of people are using the wrong products the wrong way and they’re not necessarily getting, getting the right results because they’re. Um, they’re not penetrating the skin the right way.

Got it, got it, got it, got it. So talk to me a little bit about kind of the underlying business model. It sounds it started as, you know, a services based experience. Um, but I also in your now noticed that you’ve got, you know, a membership model. You’ve got, um, there’s also a retailer and kind of e e-comm shop component of it for beauty brands and, and now you’re franchising as well.

I guess, talk to me about the, some of that evolution and then what’s kind of. What’s the revenue breakdown kind of by those different channels? Yeah. I mean, we, we haven’t always will be rooted in services, so that’s the lion’s share of the business, call it three quarters of revenue. Yep. In, in any one shop.

And, and to your point, you’re right, we have a membership model and. You know, we have it where we encourage people to come once a month, again, like your skin cells renew every, every 28 days. But yeah, the membership model is flexing up where if you can’t make it, you can gift it to a friend, you can redeem it for a gift card, you can purchase products online.

Um, so we’re trying to make it quite user-friendly. But again, skincare is all about routine and you know, the skin is, is quite a complicated organ. It can evolve and change with. With stress, with pregnancy, with environment, with diet, with sleep. So a lot goes into it. So it’s not necessarily a, a one and done.

So we were trying to set up a membership model that was very compelling to encourage that regular behavior. And we’re, we’re in a very fortunate position where probably around 70% of our facials done any one month are done on clients on a monthly membership model. So very good recurring, uh, revenue. And yes, we’ve got a, we’ve got a website where we curate.

Slightly more products than we have in in shops. Um, yep. And again, it’s just all about making it easy to, to engage with skincare. Got it. And so you shared a little bit that your background came from the finance world and mergers and acquisitions to. Um, and, and that I’m sure gave you a great insight into the category, the landscape and kind of the, you know, where that the opportunity to kind of free facials from the, the spa, uh, became, I guess what’s, what are things that you had to learn on the job as an operator of a retail business?

Um, and, and, and that experience that, that maybe even as much finance and m and a experience as, as you could have, couldn’t have prepared you for? Yeah, great question. I mean, investment banking was a very, was a great stepping stone to starting a business. I think it gives you a, a broad strategic and financial overview on how to set up a business, how to model it, how to set it up to raise money from investors and, and things that are critical to getting, getting a business incubated to, to product market fit.

I, I think where you are, you are always gonna learn, Mickey is on the operations side and in particular we’re, we’re a very labor centric. Business model. Our, our average, average shop has got 25 to 30 estheticians. So it’s all around people management. Yeah. It’s around culture, it’s alignment, it’s around motivating people and no, no business school textbook or investment banking course.

We’ll teach you that. So, uh, you know, for us that was the, uh, that’s where you keep learning and you know, for us, what we view as a competitive moat is, is being an employer of choice and, and. The people management and the, the, the motivation and the growth that comes with that is, And each our mind where we can unlock success, but that, that’s never as straight road as you as one would like.

Yeah. So when you, when you talk about that in my mind, and you talk about kind of the, the, the labor side, um, and kind of the building of culture, cuz you, you talk about like, this is 600 hours worth of certification or of of study that someone has to go to in order to be in this role. Um, my mind goes to a couple places.

I wanna start one on. The, the challenges that maybe Covid had with kind of a, at a, a retail, you know, physical location based business, but then also kind of what that has done to the labor market and, and what, how you have kind of managed through, through that. So we’ll start there and then I have a second question as well.

Yeah. I mean, was brutal for us. I don’t, I don’t think, I actually don’t think we could have been in a worse business and, and the irony. The irony, Mickey is, um, a lot of medical procedures, or, or, or doctors rightly, were deemed essential services so they could, they could reopen in very short order, right?

Botox being one of those services. So the irony that people could still get Botox, which was deemed essential, yet facials, Was, was quite painful to watch from the sidelines, but, but we had our outdoors in New York and Los Angeles, they were closed between eight and 16 months. Wow. So we, we essentially had to reopen the business in, in 2021.

I think that, I think the silver lining of that is we, there was a very, very, very painful week and as a. As a, as a founder, I’d never envisioned being in this position. It was the end of March, and between our, our support office, Mickey and, and all our estheticians and those in the shops. Um, so this is March, 2020.

We, we had a little under 500. Team members and we had to lay off 485 of them. Wow. And I think what what certainly helped was the government support and assistance provider to, to workers during that period. Yeah. But we kept a, kept a smaller team on and all almost skunk work projects and said, Hey, we’ve got five years of like lessons learned mistakes.

So like when it comes to reopening, let’s make sure that we streamlined and simplified our protocols, our shop opening procedures and, and. Basically, Alina mean a stronger, more efficient version of the shops. We, we revamped our product, curation, our, our booking platform. So we did a lot of, um, almost, you know, rebuilding the foundation of the house.

And, and that’s, you know, tying to an earlier comment you made around franchising, that’s, it’s one of the benefits of franchising because you cannot scale exceptions, right? So it forces you to standardize so much of what you want to do. And a lot of the time with, with Covid was around our. Growth and development, um, for, for estheticians, which is essentially a craft-based trade.

And yeah, I think what one thing that we’ve found, and I think this applies to a lot of, I’d say more like creative craft-based economies and, and categories, is yes, you’ve gotta pay them top tier compensation, but you’ve also gotta develop their craft and hone their skills in a way that they can’t get anywhere else in there.

They’re equally important, right? Uh, so for us it was, it was sort of a dual focus on, on doing that. Because again, with Heyday, the esthetician is our greatest asset, and you’re in a chair, 50 minutes, one-on-one with an esthetician. So yep. We’re almost our informal sales force. So getting them right and setting them up for success is what creates happy clients.

They come back, they tell their friends, and that’s the, you know, that’s the circle of life we’re looking to encourage here. And so to that end, I gotta imagine there’s the skillset side of it and the like, making sure they’re set up for success. I’m curious about how do you view your, the as decisions? I, I don’t know if I know how to say that word, but if, if they, do you encourage them to build a personal brand on social media?

Do you, do you give them a platform to say, Hey, you actually do have a craft? You are a. You have a ton of information that you have learned and gained experience on over the years, and it’s a valuable use of your time and for heyday overall for you to be putting out TikTok and Instagram vertical videos that ex like that kind of break down and explain, like I asked you at the beginning of this conversation, I, yeah, teach me about this, your world because it is, uh, it’s, I as, as you know, whether it’s for someone who’s never experienced or for people who’ve experienced it only one way for 10 years and, and maybe you guys are, Teaching them new things, is that something that you encourage?

Uh, is that part of kinda that, that, that development a Absolutely. We, we use a number of them and we’re, we’re again fortunate because we’ve got hundred of estheticians within, within Heyday, so how we use them for product curation. We’ve got, we’ve got so much data that goes into our business, Mickey, so they write detailed.

Note, so you are gonna be the benefit of, again, your skin type could be dry, I could be oily, someone else could be sensitive. Yep. We’re all on different skin journeys. Um, so we use our estheticians for a lot of content. We use our estheticians on. Instagram, they can do it themselves. We use them on TikTok.

So it’s, I think we encourage it both under the heyday, under the Heyday brand. And, you know, some, some are more extroverted and they do it on their, on their own. TikTok and Instagram accounts. Others, others, a little less so. So again, we need everybody where they, where they are on that one. Got it. It’s, the analogy I have in my head is like a Peloton instructor getting like, you know, like.

Whether it’s in a love wellbeing in Super Bowl commercials, all the way down to, you know, like them, the, uh, the instructors just having big followings on social media that. Benefits the brand as well. It benefits them, right? Like there is certainly, um, from the, you know, yeah, there’s, and there’s some, there, I guess there’s some, like old school thinking might would be, like, you would fear that because oh, I’ve given them a platform to help them build and then they’re gonna leave.

But I actually see kind of the, there’s mutual benefits that, that the brand and the business and, you know, the. An esthetician can, can, can have. Yeah. It’s, it’s an interesting one because you take a Peloton or a Soul Cycle or other concepts out there, Mickey, they’re, they’re a one-to-many business model.

Yep. So you can, you can leverage an ever love Well, or an ally love. Right. Or, or, or everybody estheticians it’s different because it’s one-to-one. Mm-hmm. You don’t necessarily, and it’s, it’s probably the downside of a, of a physical business. I can’t 10 x my business overnight, so, Having one person that causes a massive spy.

You know, I mean, a lot of our estheticians are booked weeks and weeks in advance. Yeah. Cause they’ve got a loyal following. So, It’s a, it’s a little different and you need to think a little creatively when it’s one-to-one versus one-to-many. Sure. So it’s, it’s, yeah. More of the, the Got it. Yep. No, understood.

Cool. I just was curious on how, like, when, when, when you talked about development, that’s where my brain went, but you know, in addition to kind of all the, I’m sure the craft, it’s related things you, you guys provide as well. I mean, we do, we provide a lot of. F one-on-one support a lot of internal training courses and you know, estheticians, they’ve got their areas of focus.

Mickey, some love to dive deep on acne. Yep. Some have to dive deep on, you know, hyperpigmentation, which is, you know, brown spots and sun spots and, and things on the face. And again, I think the craft-based trades, money, money is important, but it’s not as important, I think, as other professions where, you know, compensation can rule a day.

Like, yes, it’s important, but again, the, the more we, the more we empower them to, to be confident in their. Massage skills or, or areas of focus. It just, it lets them have a, have a deeper, greater experience, again, like one-on-one with the client and really work with them on a, on a particular problem. So again, part of the opportunity I saw back in, in 2013 when I had the light bulb moment was this was a category that.

As, as it relates to aestheticians massive employment class, really poorly treated and underappreciated, so mm-hmm. The, the more you can invest in that, again, you just, you put a competitive moat around Yep. The business that helps you control the supply side in a way that, like European WAX has done a phenomenal job with Sure.

Waxing like they’re, they’re such a clear market leader and there’s, there’s no close number two. So I think that that’s a core area of focus of heyday and we don’t see any other. Are the brand doing it in the, in the level of, of detail and rigor that, that we’re currently doing it at Heyday. That’s awesome.

That’s awesome. You talked about, uh, I wanna go back to, you talked about maybe one of the blessings of covid if, if, if having to, you know, go through it. A being as hit as hard as you, as, as, as your business was, was the kind of building of the foundation. And it sounds like the standardization is what prepared you.

To, to, to explore the franchise model. So I’m curious around, was that kind of the catalyst or was that always on the roadmap and, you know, COVID just maybe accelerated it? Yeah, we, we, we’ve made the strategic decision to franchise back in 2019. So it was a pre covid decision. Yep. And it wasn’t initially on the roadmap.

I’d say Mickey, when we opened our first door in, in mid 2015. And again, I think just an appreciation of where you, you then really understand the business and, and knowing that the average heyday shop is 35 to 40 employees. It was one that it just, it felt to us, and, and certainly when you look to locations that are gonna be hundreds or thousands of miles away as you, as you expand across the US is we desperately felt our team, our team was gonna have a better experience and our clients were gonna have a better experience if we franchise because the franchise partner is so invested in.

Upholding or even enhancing the experience that we worked so hard to create at a heyday. Yep. And, and we didn’t want, I think the, you know, the thing that keeps founders up at night as any brand scale is, is the magic and the consistency of the experience, the brand, d n and how you don’t lose that and become soulless or institutionalized scale.

Yep. And, and it, it just felt like a better division of or separation of, of church and state with. With where we could spend our time. So within, within Heyday, we can focus on our brand, our menu innovation, you know, our training courses and, and like product innovation. So we’re, we are giving more and more reasons for our clients to come back.

Yep. And our, and our franchise partners as better operators than we could, could, um, you know, could execute better than we can. And, and what was interesting with, with part of our diligence is with a lot of franchise brands, Mickey, those that do it well, Every single metric is actually far superior than company operated doors.

Mm-hmm. It’s not just better revenue, it’s better recurring revenue. It’s higher customer satisfaction. It’s lower team turnover. So done, done well, um, it seemed to us as, as a better way to, to utilize resources and then not let us obviously expand. Faster so we can have a greater impact on, on our mission and, and, you know, serving more clients and, and happy faces and, yeah.

Democratizing skincare. So it, it checked, it checked all the strategic financial and operational boxes that we were, were looking to. To that end, I, I’ve worked with some franchise. I’ve worked across the franchise space, both on the corporate side, um, helping, like, do the brand marketing that’s gonna ultimately drive traffic to franchisees.

Um, I’ve worked on the franchisee side where we’ve like, we’re only focused on their specific locations. Um, I’ve worked on the franchise development side, so you know, helping to, how do you find those right operational partners? Franchise development side to me is one of the ones that’s like super interesting because.

The market. I’m curious how, how, how have you found your best franchise operators or best franchise partners? Yeah, we, there’s a, there’s a few different ways we do it. One is, you know, one is organically, um, you know, even sort of like through, through almost like organic paid search where yeah, hay hayday direct does it.

We do work with other. Other partners in the, in the industry, Mickey, and there’s, there’s quite an extensive broker network and services that Yep. You know, still quite prevalent in franchising. Um, and there’s other firms that we work with as well. I, I think, you know, we’re looking for two different types of franchise partners.

And I think for us it’s both. It’s, it’s, it’s. First bucket is are those that are great operators that are like new to franchising or great operators that have franchised previously. And I think there’s some great franchise partners that are looking for their next investment Yep. That have come off, for example, you know, orange Theory or, or other bigger networks that we’ve seen a lot of consolidation in, you know, in recent years.

So if we can get them for their second rodeo, sure. Great for us. And then the second bucket is, you know, is institutional capital. And, and you know, heyday is a business where, You don’t just put one in the market. You, you, you’ve got a clustering approach. So, yep. I, I think we’re seeing, you know, we, we need to open a few more doors, but we’re getting some interesting inbound requests already from some good institutional capital partners that would take, I’d say anywhere from like 20 to 50 units.

So I, I like, yep, I like, I like those two, uh, two, two groups that I, I think sort of combine to, to create the right network and, you know, for us it’s. You get a lot of leverage by having multiple doors under the one partner versus just franchising single doors to single operators. Yep, yep. That makes, that makes sense.

I think to me, the broker network is what’s also kind of fascinating cuz it seems a little old school, uh, in some ways, but then also like, you know, there’s, I’ve seen some really great. I’ve met some really great people in franchise development who have built it through just putting out great content on LinkedIn and having really smart strategies on how they’ve kind of talked about their business and, and the franchise opportunities that that creates and how they’ve pulled in audience and pulled in.

Whether it’s institutional, whether it’s multi franchise operators, or whether maybe it’s that person who’s been in banking for 20 years and is. Wants to get outta the corporate ladder and, and, and, and get into franchising themselves. So across that spectrum. But that to me is where I see like such a cool opportunity is on the, almost like B2B marketing via LinkedIn content and kind of building an audience to help pull in people into that world.

Totally agree. We, we do all that, but you really a point. And for any. I think budding entrepreneur that’s listening out there, the, the franchise development category is right for innovation. Yes. Yes. I would, I, I agree with that. Um, well, I’m curious, skincare is a, is a evolving business, right? Like there’s new things that you are, um, there’s innovation that’s happening.

How are you going to, how does Heyday kind of look at and, uh, evaluate innovation, deliver on it, and kind of keep you, keep it you on the cutting edge of kind of skincare solutions? Fantastic question. We we’re, we are quite proactive in that area and, and when we find products that we actually like Mickey, we, we have a core group of estheticians that generally test product for four to eight weeks.

Uh, so it’s not a one and done. Some of them, you know, they use it at home. We get feedback. We’re very ruthless on the brands that we. That we, we, we take into heyday. Yep. Cause we’ve got a very heavily curated portfolio. Um, skincare is just one of those categories and I, I think part of the reason why it’s so confusing to everyone out there is it’s very loosely regulated by the fda.

So you hear these words like organic and natural, and I dunno whether people use them more as a, as a knee-jerk reaction to what we’ve seen in food, but Yep. You know, skincare is one where a, there’s no real certification for natural, but. Um, we’ve, we’ve come across some products that are organic and they’re, they’re shelf unstable, they’re inherently toxic.

You can celebrate clean cosmeceutical products and, and ingredients in skincare. So at Heyday, And, and different companies have got very, very definitions, different definitions of clean. Yeah. You know, Sephora’s definition of clean is very different from credos definition of clean, but at payday we found that efficacy rules the day.

And if you’ve got a bunch of products that may be 95% natural because they’ve got some more active peptides to, to get the results, then we do that. So I’d say strong botanical products come together with like clean cosmeceutical science to get the, the results. I mean, we’re still. We still have a big no list on paraben, sulfates and the artificial nasties.

But, um, but there is so much fantastic research and, and evolution in skincare that can be, can be celebrated. That gets fantastic results. So, you know, you’ve got a. I think we’ve gotta slowly educate the, the client around that. But until the FDA gets tight on their regulation, it’s still gonna be, um, probably like vitamins and other categories where it’s, it’s a little bit of the wild, wild west.

Um, awesome. Well, what’s. We’ve talked about kind of the evolution of the business. We’ve talked about franchising, we’ve talked about innovation here. What’s, what’s kinda on the roadmap of next challenges for you to tackle as the, as the founder operator? What, what, what’s on your kind of roadmap? Yeah. I think one thing that I, I’m just, I’m a huge proponent on, and I, I’d say if I’m gonna critique my own performance in, in recent years, it, it’s how many hours Mickey, I’ve sat.

Sitting around the boardroom table arguing about what we think the client wants. Hmm. And these days, like, let’s get out there and test it. And the beauty of our business is we don’t have, I’d say, supply chain considerations like a lot of other, I don’t know, d TOC companies, for example, where products getting made overseas, you’ve gotta make a bed on inventory, it’s gotta get made, it’s gotta get shipped.

You know, our, our supply chain are, are almost our estheticians. So it’s very easy around like a new service, um, or an innovation or something we want to do to take a shop. Test it for 30 days. Yep. You know, and see what works and things that work. We then roll out across the system things that don’t work, you know, fish and cup bait and move on to the next one.

So we’ve really increased our, our agility to test and learn and get feedback. Um, and we can do that very, very quickly. And again, we don’t have any big. Um, you know, sort of core supplier or concentration Yep. Risk that other businesses do. We do tens of thousands of facials a month, so it’s very easy to test and learn, and that’s been incredibly successful for us.

And even when things don’t work, You know, it’s not a failure, it’s a learning. So I think the, the, the, the culture that we’re promoting there is, has been critical to how we’ve innovated and, you know, we’re not just out to address what customers are looking for in their skin today, but what are they looking for tomorrow?

So I think that’s how we stay, you know, stay ahead of what others are doing. You, uh, you may have just inadvertently, I mean, you just inadvertently described our entire approach to marketing, which is. We don’t need to debate which creative idea is gonna be best for our brand, for the consumer. Make them all, make every idea you can come up with, put it into the market, whether that’s on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook or, or threads today or whatever it is.

Um, and let the consumer tell you, let, let see the creative, the idea that is winning out, and then the ones that don’t. It’s learning. It’s not failure. Totally great. And obviously a lot of your hypotheses are gonna be validated, but there’s gonna be some hidden gems where you’re gonna be like, mm-hmm. I would never have thought that in those years.

And like, that’s that’s the goal that you, you need. Yep. Um, so couldn’t, couldn’t agree more. Amazing. All right, well last question. Uh, we call this podcast Building While Flying. Cause when you’re, Building left line, it’s important to kind of keep calm under pressure. So when your back’s against the wall and you’re kind of faced with a tough decision for the business, what’s your internal pilot’s checklist, uh, so to speak or process that kinda helps you get through it?

It always helps. I think when you put into paper, things feel less, less scary. And then I think with any. Always give yourself three options. I think if you’ve got one option, you’re trapped. If you’ve got two, you’ve got a dilemma. And if you’ve got three, you’ve got options. Hmm. Uh, they may not be good options, but I think wherever you present options and you, you pre-mortem and you, you, you know, fast forward to like what’s the worst possible outcome.

You almost, Robert, Robert of its fear. Yeah. To some extent. But, but that then helps you communicate and think through it. So that’s been. Invaluable for me. And you know, don’t forget to take three deep breaths along the way. Amazing. Eliminate fear and take deep breaths is what I heard. So great. Uh, well thank you for my crash course in education on the spa business and facials and, and, uh, of course excited for y’all’s continued growth.

And, uh, thanks for being on the show today. No, thanks for having me, Mickey.