Episode 9 | Knowing How to Network While Creating Life-Saving Products with Felicia Jackson

Knowing How to Network While Creating Life-Saving Products with Felicia Jackson

Katie Hankinson (00:01): Hi, I’m Katie Hankinson.

Mickey Cloud (00:04): And I’m Mickey Cloud.

Katie Hankinson (00:05): And welcome to Building While Flying‪, our new Podcast from The Sasha Group, where we interview business leaders about how they tackle challenges, stay resilient and navigate ever-changing skies.

Mickey Cloud (00:22): Felicia, thanks so much for joining us here on Building While Flying‪. Felicia Jackson is the CEO and Inventor of CPR Wrap, a disposable CPR template that protects and guides non-medical responders during respiratory and cardiac emergencies. And I’m super excited to have you on today because you and I have got to know each other over the past couple of years from the Chattanooga entrepreneurial ecosystem, so could you give me a little bit of a background on your current role and where you’re at right now?

Felicia Jackson (00:52): Thank you for having me. This is some great opportunity. My name is Felicia Jackson. I am the CEO, Founder, and I also like to put in Inventor of CPR Wrap. And it’s a disposable template that I created when my two-year-old son was choking to death. And I was in the medical field, knew CPR and froze.

Felicia Jackson (01:15): And from that day forward, my husband ended up saving his life, but I ended up creating this template to help people, parents, caregivers, responders everywhere, to not freeze and to actually do something until emergency care can actually come and help save the life of the victim. And now we’re just rolling out, we validate the product and we’re just trying to get it not just local, regional, but worldwide.

Mickey Cloud (01:41): I’ve heard that story so many times and every time I hear it, it still takes my breath away that, that was the situation you found yourselves in, but maybe before we even dive into that would love if you could maybe even wind us back to comic book 001, your beginning stages of your life and your career. I know you mentioned you were 20 years and in the medical field that led to you launching and inventing this product, so we’d love to learn what type of kid you were, and how that shaped your career?

Felicia Jackson (02:14): I’ve always been an inventor. I’ve always been a caregiver as well. And so I knew those two were going to eventually merge, but I’m also a procrastinator by heart. And it’s crazy because those don’t mix. I’m sitting on tons of inventions that I’ve never followed through, but this particular one I knew that I had to follow through with. And the task was of course, no easy feat. Not having any business acumen, no one in my family ever owned a business, didn’t have any money living hand to mouth, but I knew I had to get this product out. I took advantage of everything within the entrepreneurial ecosystem within Chattanooga.

Mickey Cloud (02:56): That’s amazing. A lot of entrepreneurs have that light bulb moment and yours was quite dramatic as you already shared. Was a CPR device like this something that you had already, you mentioned you were an inventor from an early age. Is it something that was on a whiteboard somewhere for you? Or was it just that light bulb moment that snapped you into a hey, there’s got to be a better solution than this?

Felicia Jackson (03:23): I was always thinking in my mind, just devastated what could have happened to my son if my husband wasn’t there. But a lot of things come to me in a dream. This is crazy. Stephen King does this when he writes books I’ve read, but it just affected me so much. I had a dream of a victim actually on the ground receiving CPR and whatever it was, was on this person’s chest. And I keep a book next to my bed. I used to, now I use my phone, I’ve jumped into the 20th century, but I used to keep a book next to my bed. And every time that I had a dream, I would wake up, trace it, and that’s how CPR Wrap came to be, from a dream. And I just remembered it so vividly.

Mickey Cloud (04:07): That’s wild. Well, I’m also super excited to have you on today because I just think your entrepreneurial story is one of perseverance or just it’s really inspiring, and I know you’ve probably experienced all the different highs and lows of entrepreneurship, but when you heard the name of our Podcast, Building While Flying, what was your immediate gut reaction? What immediately came to mind when you heard that phrase?

Felicia Jackson (04:31): Oh my gosh, my life story. Something that’s the truth for the majority of entrepreneurs worldwide. That’s what we do. We jump in a lot of times with our eyes closed, not having a solution per se. Just building, we have a vision. I have a vision and a mission and I’m trying to get there. I’m trying to get from point A to point B, but all the wild, taking in everything that I need to get there. There’s no book, I wouldn’t say, there’s tons of books on entrepreneurship, but that gives you the foundation a lot. That builds up, but there’s nothing like learning and jumping in.

Mickey Cloud (05:12): There’s nothing like even just that experience of, you can read all the books, but until you get off the sidelines and into the game, it’s really, there’s everyone, [inaudible 00:05:19] the Mike Tyson quote of everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Well, I think, I guess we’d love to hear, you mentioned that it was a vision and then what was the next step from that? Did you already have some experience with materials or did you have to go and learn the full supply chain and what you were going to do to even get something created?

Felicia Jackson (05:42): Oh yeah. Even before that, even before I knew I wanted to build the thing, it was surrounding yourself with people that are doers, because I’ll be the first to say, I don’t know everything. I knew I had a product and I knew that eventually I wanted get it out, but I didn’t know how. And so the first step was connecting with people within the world of entrepreneurship. At the time it was first, it was SCORE Chattanooga. And those are retired business people. And they actually got me on the path, lit a fire under me, made me feel like I could actually do something with it. And then I was directed towards LAUNCH Chattanooga. And places like that come within your space.

Felicia Jackson (06:25): We were not rich by any means, grew up with a rich family, but places like that came into our community, low income, impoverished community. I didn’t know anything about downtown Chattanooga and things they had to offer, they came to me. And they gave me all the tools that I needed, and from there I was the Google queen. I became best friends with FDA, to make sure I was doing rules and regulations right. I wanted, knew I wanted to get it patented, so the USPTO became my best friend. I dove in headfirst and just started learning everything that I could.

Mickey Cloud (07:03): And I know one of those learning programs that you went through was you were selected for Techstars in Austin, in 2019. And so, having been an entrepreneur that, you were learning from all different types of resources, like LAUNCH Chattanooga, getting some toolkits there and talking with people who have maybe, retired business people, things like that. But what was different about Techstars and what were your top takeaways from a high profile accelerator like that?

Felicia Jackson (07:30): It was amazing though the things they pack in, in those three months, I relocated. I had to move down there and we were in the thick of things. I got a lot in Chattanooga, but after so much you move on to another level. They gave me everything that I needed in spades. And the thing that they taught me the most was to stop. Because here I am, a single founder trying to do, I had seven channels of distribution. I’m one person. And in my mind, I’m going to get it. I feel like I can do, hit each one of those, but I couldn’t. I had to be realistic. And so they made me stop. Stop, everything that I was doing, focus on KPIs, focus on product marketing. All these things that I really didn’t know about or didn’t take advantage of learning, they really gave me those. And gave it to me, and then kick me out of the house to see if I could fly some more.

Mickey Cloud (08:39): That point that you just brought up around, you had seven different distribution channels that you were pursuing. I remember in some of our first conversations a couple of years ago, that was one of the things that I know you were grappling with, which is you could sell this product, has so many uses. You could sell it direct to consumer. You could sell it to traditional brick and mortar retail stores like a Walmart or CVS. You could sell it in a B2B sense to airlines and hospitals and schools. And there is a little bit of paralysis by opportunity. And so when every door is an opportunity, how do you go through and prioritize? So what you learned at Techstars to stop and identify, so we had seven different opportunity, or distribution channels, what are the ones you focused on? And what made you focus on that?

Felicia Jackson (09:29): I always knew, because you have a lot of [inaudible 00:09:31], sometimes you have a lot of noise in your ear, because especially if I tell people about the product, it’s like, this is great. I can see it here, here, here, here, here. And so, I’m already a go getter and it’s like, yes, I can do that. But I had to really look at, we had to look at the KPIs. I had to do ads, a lot of organic, some paid ads just to see who my customer really is and how can I capture that and convert that into sales because at the end of the day that’s what we want to do, we want to close these deals. And they gave me all of that. And I think I finally found who my target market really is, what’s working.

Mickey Cloud (10:17): Talk to me a little bit about that. Is that someone on the direct to consumer level or are you still pursuing B2B? Where are you focusing most of your energy and time on now?

Felicia Jackson (10:28): CPR Wrap is a B2B to C. I always want to have a link open for direct to consumer and that’s where our e-commerce platform comes in and our partnership with Walmart. I just want them to be able to get the product without having to go through a distributor or a reseller. But at the end of the day, I knew that to grow more efficiently I had to focus on creating channel partners within ourselves. CPR Wrap, I knew it was not going to be a one product company. But how can I combine CPR Wrap kits in with first aid kits, and with stop the bleed kits. These companies already have our end-users within their pipeline. It’s easier for me to merge CPR Wrap in there, to capture the people that we need to grow.

Mickey Cloud (11:15): So those partnerships you now have in place?

Felicia Jackson (11:18): We do have some in place. We partnered with for-profit. We partnered with some that are nonprofit. Big companies like American Insurance, Express Yourself. A lot of these companies here in the US, in Africa and in Latin America. So I’m very excited about that.

Mickey Cloud (11:36): That’s amazing. From what I’ve even just heard today and what I’ve known even going into today, your entrepreneurial journey has not been a linear one. And so I know there’s been ups, downs, momentum, there’s all of it, so what’s been the biggest challenge that you’ve faced as an entrepreneur?

Felicia Jackson (11:54): Oh man, besides capital, I know a lot of people will say fundraising and capital. That has really hit hard with me initially and ongoing because you need money to grow at the end of the day. And if I could increase my bottom line without ever having to do an investment, I would rather do that. I would rather use the money that I bring in from selling products. But I also had issues with making the right connections. I always felt like in order for me to be paired with someone that can help me overcome an obstacle, they wanted CPR Wrap to be at a certain level. Initially coming in, no one knew about the product and I wasn’t really getting introduced, I was getting introduced to some people, but not the people that I felt that I should have been introduced to. And I think exposure of various advisors and mentorships is very key early on.

Mickey Cloud (12:55): Has there been an advisor or a mentor for you that has really helped unlock something within the business for you?

Felicia Jackson (13:02): Oh my gosh. In the very early stages before I even had a last product, my buyable product made, it was still a drawing on a paper. A group actually came to me and they wanted to buy 80% of my company for $1.2 million. And so I’m at this meeting and I’m freaking out. We lost our car, we almost lost our home, I had quit my job, used up all of our savings, we didn’t have any money. And so they’re offering me all of this money.

Felicia Jackson (13:33): I happened to call, I excused myself, and I went to the rest room and I took out my phone and I made a call to two people that I trusted the most at the time, Marco Perez and Christina [inaudible 00:13:45]. And I called them, told them what was happening. I have this money, but I don’t want to let go CPR Wrap, and I don’t know what to do. They didn’t tell me to take the money. They didn’t tell me, not take the money. They just reminded me of my vision and they knew I wasn’t ready yet. And if they really want to work with you, they can hold on, that money’s not going anywhere. And I turned them down.

Mickey Cloud (14:11): Something we at Sasha Group care a lot about is we work with a lot of founders and sometimes it takes them five minutes to explain what it is their company is doing and sometimes you just even need having outside counsel come in and help whittle that down to all right, here’s your mission, your vision and your values. It just helps unlock and inspire them to get re inspired about what they’re doing. How do you feel about that foundational mission and vision within CPR Wrap?

Felicia Jackson (14:38): My actual business was built around what my vision was, and I always had that passion. I always had that purpose and determination, so I knew going in. It’s nothing for me to say, hey, what our mission is, to empower every man, woman, and child, to save a life and be safe. I’m meaning you have to mean it for it to work and for people to believe you. They’re taking a risk. This is something that I chose to do. I chose to put myself out there. Not my mentor, advisor or my team or my employees. They’re drinking from the Kool-Aid that I made, so I have to be believable as well.

Mickey Cloud (15:16): How bigs the team at now?

Felicia Jackson (15:17): I’m a team of one and a half. I say one and a half because I hired my daughter and she’s not going anywhere, so she’s still working with me. But I am in the middle of fundraising. I’m getting ready to close my first round. And that’s when I’m going to do some rehires.

Mickey Cloud (15:35): And that’s a seed round that you’ve done or is that a…

Felicia Jackson (15:37): I already had an initial investor, but this is the biggest seed round I’ve ever done.

Mickey Cloud (15:44): And so what will that unlock for you? What will those next steps be?

Felicia Jackson (15:48): We’re ready. So I’ve already done the hard work. We have a product. We’ve gotten it validated. People want the product. I even drove my price point down to where it needs to be. Now I’m looking to bring on a sales person to help even it out. Right now, I can tell my story all day long, I’m a salesperson and I probably always will be, but I need someone with experience that I don’t have. And also I wanted to bring on someone as far as operation goes to help with the back end and… Because I had a person like that before and it made everything run so much more smooth.

Mickey Cloud (16:24): That’s awesome. Talk to me about where you’re at with how you’re marketing the business right now. So I know and I follow you on all different social media channels, but I know you’re someone who comes up in my LinkedIn feed quite a bit, because I think you’re using that channel really appropriately. I know it’s something you and I spoke about years ago about the organic reach you’re getting on that platform. But I love how you’ve been using that to communicate your story as an entrepreneur, but also to communicate, and raise awareness of CPR Wrap. So curious where you’re at these days with how you’re approaching content and social media.

Felicia Jackson (17:00): Now, that’s one of the things in my wheelhouse that I’m having to learn. And I am actually working with someone here in Chattanooga and I had the pleasure of working with several people in Austin, Texas when I was there. And I had to do a complete pivot and turn around when I was learning about marketing CPR Wrap, because I was focused on the sale, the bells and whistles of it all and it’s not like that. I had to learn to give content to sell the why of CPR Wrap, be customer centric. And with that, that’s why I do, I have something called Chronicles of a female founder. And I put that on LinkedIn and Facebook quite a bit, because I think people should see the journey, let them know it’s not all rosy. And I actually throw in things about CPR Wrap as well. So that also gives validation as an entrepreneur that’s still growing and the products and the business that I’m growing as well.

Mickey Cloud (18:04): I think that’s such a smart content series because it’s super authentic to who you are and it gives you a really genuine way to bring up CPR Wrap. I also saw on LinkedIn earlier this week that this is probably going to be your second favorite conversation of the week because you spoke with Gwyneth Paltrow.

Felicia Jackson (18:21): Yes I did.

Mickey Cloud (18:22): How did that come up? And how did that conversation go?

Felicia Jackson (18:26): When you talk about the entrepreneurial ecosystem as a whole, it’s all in, even with Techstars and TechCrunch, they still communicate with me. So any type of things that are available to entrepreneurs worldwide, they send that to me in my mailbox and I take advantage. And one of them was, Hello Alice. And they have mentorship, they’re really big on mentorship and advisement and pairing you with people that you can get these great nuggets from. And I did, I put down and at first they didn’t tell us who those people who we’re going to talk to. And they chose 30 companies. They wanted to know everything about my company, where I was at my company and know a lot about me and I put it out there. And then I get this message, You were chosen. Congratulations. And you’re going to be talking to Gwyneth Paltrow, and I’m thinking, Oh my gosh.

Felicia Jackson (19:18): I already knew about her company, Goop, and what she was really about. She doesn’t consider herself as an actress hardly anymore. She’s straight entrepreneur. And I think I was the second, no, I was, not think, I was the second company to actually address her and ask her a question and talk to her. And she was just, it was just amazing. It was amazing. I love when celebrities are able to be touchable. I always thought they were the untouchables. You asked them any questions, but everybody has been where you are now. And it’s about helping. I know I want to give back, even as I’m growing. It was great to talk to her.

Mickey Cloud (19:56): What’d you ask her?

Felicia Jackson (19:59): Well, I asked her three things actually. But I asked her about, because CPR Wrap is a social impact product. In my heart, like I said, that’s my culture, my mission, I want to give back, but I can’t just give the CPRS Wraps away. I have to build the business and so my question was knowing that she has charity organizations that she wants to give back to, how is she able to do that? And, not cut into her bottom line as she’s trying to grow her company and, can a startup company actually give back to charity? And so she gave a great answer. They give 10% right now of what they’re doing and I just have to find, I have found my way that I can give back to the community.

Mickey Cloud (20:43): Well, I think that’s actually where I wanted to go next was around, you mentioned you didn’t grow up with having entrepreneurs in your life or people owning businesses and that, and you worked for 20 years in the medical field, in physical therapy but then found this opportunity. So how are you thinking about actively while you’re building CPR Wrap as a black female founder, how do you become a role model for your community and how does that factor into what you’re doing while you’re actually trying to build the company?

Felicia Jackson (21:23): It’s about being transparent. I always say my life is a roadmap for others coming behind me. And I truly believe that, and that’s why I want to put out the best content that I can, whatever means. I’m still learning, how to do it better than what I’m doing. I think that’s the best way that I can give back and be there in the moment. A lot of times I say yes to several things that I probably shouldn’t have. I need to learn how to say no, sometimes. I’m still working on that.

Mickey Cloud (21:50): We all are.

Felicia Jackson (21:51): Oh my gosh, Mickey its awful. But the times where I did say yes, where I was able to talk to young girls with the girls club, girl Scouts, or young entrepreneurs, even veteran entrepreneurs, I was able to tell my story. I have people walk up to me when I did a Tedx, I was terrified. But when people came up to me with tears in their eyes saying, wow, you just told my story, it made it all real. It made me feel like I’m not in it alone. I’m helping others, but they’re also helping me.

Mickey Cloud (22:28): That’s awesome. We love this Building While Flying analogy for a lot of reasons, because I think it speaks to the nimbleness, the flexibility, that foresight you need to operate in business, but also because pilots are renowned for having that checklist so that when something goes wrong, that training kicks in and they’re calm under pressure. What’s your, when your back’s against the wall or when you’re trying to make a tough decision, what’s that process for you? What’s that internal checklist that helps you arrive at the right place to go.

Felicia Jackson (22:59): First I have to stop. I have to stop within that moment. And because sometimes you can react real quick and it’s impulsive. And I think that’s the worst time to react is when you’re being impulsive. And so you have to take a step back, calm yourselves. And if you have people that you can call, definitely do that to work through and strategize. If you have a team definitely, or a board, advisory board or even investor board. That’s what they’re there for, to talk through some things because they can give you some great nuggets that you can do to help you dig yourself out of whatever hole you’re in and just finalize and execute. Execute, if this is the wrong pathway, stop. At the pivot, do it again.

Felicia Jackson (23:48): I always tell people, [inaudible 00:23:50], you suppose, this is the great analogy. When you’re doing CPR, what if you’re not supposed to start the compressions? Well, they’re either dead or dying. If you’re doing CPR and they need it, you saved a life, hopefully. If they don’t, then they’ll stop you. And that’s the same with entrepreneurship. When you’re in a hole, you got to get out there and jump in there and just really do it, but prepare yourself.

Mickey Cloud (24:14): And you mentioned in that answer, start executing, go down a path and if it doesn’t work, pivot. What’s been the biggest pivot that CPR Wrap’s had to go through?

Felicia Jackson (24:25): Oh, wow. Say with COVID I think we all had to do that, but one that comes to mind was when I was trying to figure out, when I thought I knew exactly who my and I still do, I think this is it, what my target market was. And I’m calling all of these companies and it’s like, nobody is letting me in the door. Nobody wants to hear what I have to say. And it’s like, okay, well I know this product will fit great in the first aid kits, I know it will. I even did a test run. And I said, well, I’ll just make my own kit. And so my pivot was to purchase, I think I purchased 80 kits, put a CPR Wrap in the kit, sold them all in one or two days. And it was like, okay, well now this is something else that I can bring into my product line. It’s my own first aid kit brand, and I just had to do it. They’re not letting me in, fine.

Mickey Cloud (25:19): Here we go.

Felicia Jackson (25:20): Here we go.

Mickey Cloud (25:21): Build it myself. One last thing I guess would love to wrap up with is just, what keeps you going every day? So I know it might tie back into mission or just, when you think about 2021, when you think about where you’re taking this company, what gets you fired up to keep going after it every day?

Felicia Jackson (25:40): The calls I get, the emails I get from peers, from people that I’ve met during pitches or conferences that I went through, and they tell me they’ve experienced somebody that needed CPR or died, or a parent that called me and told me that their two year old daughter had a sudden infant death syndrome next to her bed, but her husband was the one that knew how to do CPR, but he was at work and there was nothing she could do and lost her child. That is what keeps me going, because I know for a fact, you know what, I’m passionate about this, but I know this is a product that can save lives. And if I can save one life, then I’m good.

Mickey Cloud (26:20): I’m sure you already have. And so that’s, I think we were talking before I got on, I just finished my first parent-teacher conference and that story, just it’s unimaginable. That would keep me going too. I just want to say thank you so much for joining us. I think your story is one that’s super inspiring and is one that I know everyone in Chattanooga is really rooting for. Thanks so much for your time this morning, Felicia.

Felicia Jackson (26:48): Thank you for having me.

Katie Hankinson (26:51): Well, now that we’ve finished that thoroughly interesting interview, we’re getting ready to land. But before we do, Mickey and I spent some time unpacking some of the key takeaways that really stuck out to us.

Mickey Cloud (27:02): We liken this to the post game show, where we break down the really extraordinary nuggets that we can all benefit from, including us here at The Sasha Group, so get ready for the Sasha sidebar.

Katie Hankinson (27:11): So Mickey, Felicia was awesome. What a great interview. I would love you to tell me a bit about how you are connected with her. Obviously she’s part of the ‘Nooga world.

Mickey Cloud (27:31): So I’m on a couple boards here in town that are in the collab and the enterprise center that are all in chamber of commerce that are all connected to the early stage startup community, and they are all about supporting the entrepreneurial community. And Felicia and CPR Wrap, it’s one of those success stories of she literally had this idea in a dream, and used these local resources. She went through to build the business plan, to start get the sales deck to get some of the first customers, she went through Chattanooga’s entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Mickey Cloud (28:06): So one thing that I love about Chattanooga is we really do root for the success of everyone here. And so I think there’s not a lot of competition. It’s more about like rising tide lifts all boats kind of thing. And so you can’t really throw a rock in our entrepreneur ecosystem and not have someone tell you about, about CPR Wrap and Felicia. That’s how we met and then I’ve had coffee with her multiple times over the years, just trying to help if there’s any way connect her, or give her ideas or just help her as she’s been growing the business.

Katie Hankinson (28:38): That’s awesome. Will you talk a bit about exactly what CPR Wrap is because she’d spoke about it briefly, but I think it’d be good to just understand a bit more.

Mickey Cloud (28:45): It’s a kit, essentially it’s an instructions that is a wrap that goes over the human body, so that it gives you instructions on how to do CPR for folks that aren’t CPR trained or just are in a moment of panic and terror, maybe forget their training. And so you literally, you can take it out and it goes over the chest of the person that you might be trying to help, and it gives you literally play by play instructions on what to do to give them CPR. And so as a parent of two very young children, it is definitely something that I haven’t been in any of the examples that she was talking about in terms of those nightmare examples, but we’ve got a CPR Wrap at home to make sure that I can at least know what to go do should a moment like that arise.

Katie Hankinson (29:35): That’s so amazing that it came to her in a dream. I love it. And they’ve been able to, I think the fact that she knows she’s made massive social impact as well, having done created a product that is so, it must be so rewarding. I think the thing that stood out to me the most on this in terms of, particularly thinking of all the conversations we’ve had so far, is how much of a really amazing example of someone who’s starting out this is. Felicia obviously early on in her journey. She’s in her first phase of funding. She’s demonstrated the so many of the characteristics of what brings you through those early stages and gets you to here. And I love to hear a couple of things which really stood out.

Katie Hankinson (30:19): Firstly, the value of advisory or mentorship, or even being part of an accelerator. It sounds like the nooga community, and then over in Austin was it, I think.

Mickey Cloud (30:29): Yes, it was in Austin.

Katie Hankinson (30:30): She really found her people and a great network of people to support her. And she was absolutely not afraid to take advice, reach out for advice and seek mentorship along the way, which is so helpful when you are literally a one woman brand on the outset. The other one was in a crazily fast moving world that we’re in, the importance sometimes of just stopping and focusing and knowing that you need to shed some of the crazy shiny objects in favor of the thing that’s going to move the business forward the most. And then the third, which I think for anyone who is creating a product that is its first of its kind or in a slightly new category, is this idea of creating a product to sell your product. The way she put the CPR Wrap into a first aid kit was really smart as a way to show proof of her concept.

Mickey Cloud (31:25): Yeah, because no existing first aid kits would let her in the door, so she made her own and sold all those as a proof of concept and is now using that to put on.

Katie Hankinson (31:36): And really showing that greatest skill level of entrepreneurs, which is grit and tenacity. So I think in terms of questions, the one that strikes me that we could potentially ask our listener, in your business, what is that one piece of advice from a mentor that has really stuck with you over time or has really helped you move your business forward.

Katie Hankinson (32:04): Thanks for joining us for Building While Flying today. I hope you learned as much as we did. We’ll meet you right back here next time for another flight.

Mickey Cloud (32:16): If you’d like to hear more about how business owners and brands are navigating these times tune in to the next episode. And if you’re so kind, please rate and review us, plus we’d love feedback. So let us know what you think, what you’d like us to dig into next on Building While Flying across brands, businesses, marketing and more.

Katie Hankinson (32:31): This Podcast is produced by the team@mustamplify.com original music by [inaudible 00:32:36] music group.