Episode 70 – The Future of Work is On Demand – Rajesh Sinha, Fulcrum Digital

Katie Hankinson (00:01):

Hi, I’m Katie Hankinson and I’m Mickey Cloud. Welcome to building while flying a Saha group podcast, where we interview business leaders about how they tackle challenges, stay resilient and navigate ever-changing skies.

Katie Hankinson (00:20):

Welcome to building while flying in, in the flesh, which we always love actually recording it in house. Um, my guest today is Rajesh Sinha, who is the chairman and founder of fulcrum digital, where his company works with global brands and builds custom business platforms and technology ecosystems to help businesses with rapid digital acceleration first, a product to market reduce cost of ownership, and of course, scale, plenty of things, dive to dive into there. And he is also written a book about his personal story and of course, all of the experiences and knowledge accumulated along the way, uh, the digital operating model, the future of work. Welcome to the show.

Rajesh Sinha (01:01):

Thank you. Thank you for having me great interaction.

Katie Hankinson (01:04):

Wow. <laugh> yeah, you sound very impressive.

Rajesh Sinha (01:07):

Of course.

Katie Hankinson (01:09):

So I, we talked about a bunch of different things in there in terms of all of the kind of elements of the future of work, but also the, the ways in which you help businesses large and small really, um, with digital transformation. But before we get into that, let’s actually explore a bit of your own story, cuz I know it’s a bit of a building while flying tail in and of itself. Um, I think when we first met, you described yourself as a digital doctor and I’d love to hear a bit more about that and uh, yeah. Tell us a bit about your, your background story.

Rajesh Sinha (01:38):

All right. Great. Um, so my story starts from India. That’s where I was born, uh, born in a family where my dad was engineer mm-hmm <affirmative> while he was an engineer. He had a business, uh, mind, you know, so he started a business, started a public and boarding school. Then he started a furniture business. So while I was growing up, I was learning from him. Mm. And I call that as a transformative learning. So while my, you know, schools and universities were teaching me subjective learning, my dad was teaching me transformative learning. So I didn’t realize, uh, when I look back and reflect on the whole journey, I think the entrepreneurship started with the people who you are surrounded with. Mm-hmm <affirmative> new childhood. And, and that’s when I think, um, the lot of training was happening for me. And then I graduated with computer science in 93, worked for six years and then started fulcrum when I was 27 or something. Can

Katie Hankinson (02:37):

You talk a little bit about what it is that Fulcrum does?

Rajesh Sinha (02:40):

The Fulcrum name means it’s a, you know, in physics you have our committee’s principle, right? They say like, if you are given a support in the universe, you can turn the whole world. Yeah. So we feel that we are that kind of a support organizations to small, to big companies that they can change the way they do the business. Right. When we started the first 10 years, we were services organization. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the last 10 years we become platform and products organization. So we are the company now, 50 50 services and platform company today. And, um, so that’s what we build. And the reason we build, uh, became a platform company because we became more purposeful organization today. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So now our purpose is to transform lives of consumers every day, by building a better and smarter detail platforms, whether we offer our own license product or we help big banks or food companies or universities to bring better platform for, um, students experience or moms and dad’s experience what your kids are going to eat in the school, they can select through mobile platform what they should be eating. So trying to make the world a better place to live and work.

Katie Hankinson (03:54):

So just to, if I repeat that back to you, like the, almost that distinction between coming from services or digital products that shift to platform was taking it to a broader space and being able to service groups of people in a more meaningful way, is that kind of how you would

Rajesh Sinha (04:11):

Summarized it very well. And then now I’ll stitch the story with your digital doctor concept last in the beginning, right? So, so the whole thinking is about doctors. So when you try to solve any problem, mm-hmm <affirmative> in, in future, I always say that people are not gonna sell products and services. People are gonna sell experience, right? So that’s the experience economy we gotta live with. So this doctor mindset helps us bring experience to who’s ever you service because when you go to a doctor, doctor does not give you any medication right on off the shelf. Mm-hmm <affirmative> they ask you lots of questions profile. You really understand your problem, right? And then based on who you are, then they recommend you what’s the right prescription for you. Then you are, you know, somebody’s good doctor. So listening is the best skills, you know, many times in entrepreneurship or when I was building the business, I made so many mistakes. I used to be the talker giving solutions for all the problem mm-hmm <affirmative> on the fly and those are the mistakes. Like, you know, you gotta be good listener and being a doctor, you become a good listener and then you can recommend the right roadmap and a solution, or

Katie Hankinson (05:20):

That’s so interesting. It’s I mean, it’s very much when we think about, on, on my team, when we think about helping companies with brand foundation building, it’s all the questions that you ask at the beginning that are really gonna help get a proper sense of the lay of the land. Yeah. And if you haven’t really done all that foundational element of discovery and diagnostics, then you might be going down entirely the wrong track. So that’s a big part, presumably not only of how fulcrum behaves, but also the, what you learned over the, the sort of matter of you’ve built your own company. And now you’re applying that to, to all of those clients that you’re working with moving forward.

Rajesh Sinha (05:54):

Of course. Yeah. That’s what’s happening. Yeah.

Katie Hankinson (05:57):

So you help companies with digital transformation, which is one of those words that have been banded around the few years now. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, can you just take a step back and explain what that even means? Cause I think we have listeners from who run companies from all different sizes. Some of them are pretty small and maybe starting out in a kind of fairly digital environment. What, what does digital transformation mean to you and to VCR?

Rajesh Sinha (06:25):

So in the real sense, if you look at it, why became popular? It’s linked with growth and it’s linked with exponential growth because in the industry, consumers, behaviors are changing faster. And if you are not agile enough to change your business model, to deliver your cus, to deliver your customer’s experience, you are gonna be disrupted by somebody else. Mm-hmm <affirmative> what happens in digital transformation is only two things. Mm-hmm <affirmative> vertical transformation and horizontal transformation. Mm-hmm <affirmative> where any businesses doesn’t matter what size you are, what industry you are, which what locations you are based out of you are either transforming your employees experience or your transforming your customer’s experience. Your employees experience are called horizontal experience. Your customer experiences are all called vertical experiences. Mm. So either you, you know, so nowadays in this pandemic or, you know, hopefully post pandemic world employees are all going to use the platform to deliver better outcome for the companies and that companies can deliver better outcome for the customers.

Katie Hankinson (07:28):

So when you think about firstly digital transformation is almost a misnomer, it kind of just means get involved with technology and let it work in the service of either your customer or your employee mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that fundamentally paired with like a real diagnosis of what it is you’re trying to achieve at the beginning, but also a sense of what that outcome is to your point. Is it environment, is it, you know, effectiveness? Is it community, is it engagement, then those are the things that you can use digital transformation to achieve.

Rajesh Sinha (08:01):

Yes. You recap it very well. Yeah.

Katie Hankinson (08:04):

So if you then think about, you know, I would love to just hear one or two examples of companies. So I know you’ve worked with, um, education mm-hmm <affirmative>, you’ve done something recently with the culinary space. What’s an example of where a, a company has kind of employed a platform and, and, you know, taken that step into achieving either vertical or horizon

Katie Hankinson (08:25):

Transformation.

Rajesh Sinha (08:26):

So

Rajesh Sinha (08:26):

Yeah, if you look at the university space, right, who are the customers of the university? Mm. The customers are students, students are paying the fees because they pay the fee and they study in the campus. Student becomes the customer of the university. So universities are in the business of retaining the students, enrolling the new students and maintaining their quality of educations in the campus. That’s the business they are in mm-hmm <affirmative>. Now what digital platform does for the university is, um, gives them the power to analyze the student’s behavior in the campus. So digital platform can help you understand who all are attending the classes, who all are paying the fees on time, who all are submitting the assignments on time. So when you aggregate all the data behind the student, they’re touching many systems inside the university. But when you bring all that data about the student’s behavior in the campus, you can analyze this student is going to stay with the, in the university, or they’re likely to leave.

Rajesh Sinha (09:28):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. If they’re likely to leave, the university will have less revenue. So you wanna work hard to identify those bunch of student. And that’s the kind of platform we bring in as a student experience platform to keep them together, integrate their backend system, deliver the experience to the staff and student so that they can track their own journey and have a better experience of learning in the campus, you know, or online, whatever platform universities are offering them. That’s the example on the university side mm-hmm <affirmative>. Now, if you come to the food side, which is, um, you know, a lot of food is getting catered to hospitals and universities and schools. So the example which I was talking earlier, the kids are going to school. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, they’re getting meals delivered to them as a mom and dad. If we have a power of a platform to select in the morning nine, o’clock what my kids are going to eat in the school at 12 o’clock because my kids have allergy to milk or nuts or whatever they can design the menu.

Rajesh Sinha (10:32):

And nine o’clock. The menu is designed 12 o’clock. The meal is getting served and through mobile platform, if you can do that, you are making kids’ lives better. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you are making them held here. The same story goes in hospitals. So depending on the disease and the patient’s criteria, if doctor can recommend the meal planning for the patients, the same way the nurses can design the menu for the hospital, patients mm-hmm <affirmative> and the meal can be delivered to them, you know, and data is the key data is so human brain can only store so much of knowledge. That’s why today you see the race between human and machine. Mm. So the next phase of work is automation intelligence. So all that is coming together. If you are ready with digital platform, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, that’s when the future technology can give you more value

Katie Hankinson (11:19):

As you were building fulcrum. And as you have kind of come through these stages of kind of realizing and understanding the features of, of building a company that can help be transformative in this way. Mm-hmm <affirmative> what are some of the early mistakes that you made that have kind of shaped how you go about recommending paths to others,

Rajesh Sinha (11:37):

Many mistakes. <laugh> I’m sure I can write a book on that, but the early mistakes, which you said, um, is when I started, I think I was trying to solve everyone’s problem and saying that being an entrepreneur, I wanna buy something cheaper, you know, uh, and, um, and try to solve their problem because they will take five hours. I can solve it in five minutes. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so why do we waste time? What,

Katie Hankinson (12:01):

What is you your kind of a, you know, so much about the future of work, and you’ve been thinking a lot about the future of work. What did the pandemic do in your mind to kind of define or accelerate or kind of frame what the future of work is for, for all of us? <laugh> yeah.

Rajesh Sinha (12:18):

Big question. That’s a very part. No, but that’s the main question in everyone’s mind, including mine and everyone’s right. So if I give you an answer in one word, I would call it on demand. Mm. So what pandemic taught all of us that the world can impossible as possible. We can do many more things without pandemic hitting us. Right. So that’s what called exponential thinking process. Mm-hmm <affirmative> right. And, and one of the example I’ll give you is on demand example, when Netflix, uh, came to the market, they disrupted, uh, you know, blockbuster, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, why? Because they brought in on demand entertainment. Whenever you wanna watch entertainment, you know, watch your, um, series. You can go and, you know, enjoy it the same way today. My wife, just, uh, last month she bought a mid technology. I don’t know if you know

Katie Hankinson (13:06):

That. I do know you. Yes.

Rajesh Sinha (13:08):

So what is mirror? And I didn’t know about it. So it was just lying in my, um, you know, uh, in a living room and, and the entertainment room. And I went there, I asked her, what is this, this mirror look at this, this connects with internet. You can exercise, you will have life trainer in front of you. And I thought this is on demand. Yeah. When I feel like exercising, I should have a life trainer available for me. Yeah. To train me. Right. So today with the work, people are expecting on demand, work environment. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So when they feel like when they feel, they will not compromise the outcome for a day, but they need to have a choice of delivering the outcome. So flexibility on demand is the new wave we got to all ride on rigidity is killed before pandemic. So if you’re rigid, you’ll be broken, you’re screwed. So you gotta be fluid and flexible. And that’s what the word comes out.

Katie Hankinson (14:01):

So I, it’s so interesting. We’ve we’ve been having, I mean, I cannot think of a single person who is currently involved in work in one way, shape or form who is not having a conversation along these lines of like, what is the return going to look like and how do we plan for it? And I guess to your point, one element is simply being ready to be flexible. It’s, it’s almost a mindset that more than anything else, but then presumably there’s also planning for it from a technology and a kind of structural perspective. Is that stuff that you’ve been talking about too, is there sort of when early on in this whole conversation about return to office, I think it was Jamie diamond made a, a very sweeping statement about, you know, I think people are more productive when they’re in the office, like period, you know, and I kind of think that those very kind of generalized statements, miss miss the opportunity to have the flexibility conversation.

Rajesh Sinha (15:00):

Of course, if you are a bank teller and you need to service a customer and the customer comes into the bank, then you need to be behind the counter mm-hmm <affirmative> so that the customer has someone to speak to. Yep. But if you’re someone else working in another department that could be remote, then you’re right. The flexi model needs to be sort of applied specifically depending on circumstances. Yeah. And based on the set of values that you’ve all agreed are the things that drive the company. Yeah. So I love that you talked about, there are a lot of them are mindsets and practice or structural practice. I, I, I think the fact that we have just been, I love the way you said that we’ve been shown that the impossible is possible. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and therefore, if nothing else, that’s something we can take board with us and debunk, anytime someone says it can’t be done. <laugh>

Rajesh Sinha (15:49):

Absolutely, absolutely. Go back to the school of pandemic, you know, remember that graduation we had <laugh> yeah. And that degree we got was impossible to possible. So don’t wait for pandemic, you know, we gotta figure out growing. Yeah. All the positive sites, you know, dark is over let-hmm <affirmative>, let’s look for the light now, you know?

Katie Hankinson (16:07):

So how do you think companies will be able to maintain that kind of cred? Credulousness this kind of like, you know, cuz it’s not an outside force now it’s now it’s, you are inspired by the fact the impossible can happen. How are you gonna remind yourself in the moment when you, when you’re given all those constraints again, do you have those conversations with customers? I’d be so curious to know your thoughts.

Rajesh Sinha (16:31):

Sure. Um, yeah, once you get the test of the success and test of one method, you want to make it practice in the company or in your lifestyle. Right. And it will happen with strategy, structure, people and culture. These were pre pandemic world terms, post pandemic, world terms. I define it this again, my version is called culture first then comes strategy structure people. And then finally it comes data mm-hmm <affirmative> so finally culture and data, which just starts and ends with it. You know, that’s the power. If your company is built around these parameters, you can help them practice this phenomena of exponential growth, impossible to possible. And that I call it a agile mindset, growth mindset, liquid mindset. Um, you know, I love liquid mindset. <laugh>

Katie Hankinson (17:25):

I have a liquid mindset. I’m gonna go a little bit past. Cause I think, I think we’re into a really good jam. And so like I think we can maybe edit one or two bit out earlier and then we’ll come back. Okay.

Katie Hankinson (17:39):

Um, just cause I think, um, I love, I love liquid mindset. We talk a lot about, you know, the thing that unites the clients that we love to work with is a growth mindset and is an ability to apply learning back to how you’ve structured. And I love the idea of like bookending with culture and data. So, you know, as we always say, like there’s no point in setting an agenda of things you need to achieve. If you can’t measure them in a, in a like actual measurable, trackable way, which is where the data feed comes

Rajesh Sinha (18:13):

In. Absolutely. You got it. Right. You know, because when I started the business, it was all indu and emotion. Yeah. And when I started to build it and scale it, it was all metrics. So when the emotions and data, when the emotions meets with the data, that’s when you have a scalable growing organization, mm-hmm <affirmative>, you gotta measure it and monitor it and continuously mature it. So that’s the mix. That’s why, you know, whether your culture is working when you can measure it. And uh, and then comes in between strategy because become a purposeful company. You know, when we started, we never had that big goal. We always call ourselves to be a thought leader. Um, and to become a thought leader, we became digital doctor, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> we listen and solve the problem. But now when we look back, we say, we have to touch billion lives by digital transformation, digital platform.

Rajesh Sinha (19:04):

So if we can launch digital platform, which people all over the world are using our platform and transforming their lives, then we are in a true business of digital transformation. Mm-hmm <affirmative> right. And that all happens with this power of bringing a value to your customers. And when I looked at all these companies, 5 million to 5 billion or 10 billion companies, they all have same common denomin Miniter of problems, you know, and all these 21 years, you know, being the journey meeting with all the CEOs and bigger it organizations smaller, I found everyone has three problems, data process, and experience. Mm-hmm <affirmative> everything revolves in your business. If you look at it, you will have your customers, data, product, data, employees, data, you have certain process to run your business. And end of the day you have some customers, you are delivering the experience, right? These are the only three things. And these three things doesn’t work very well in all sizes of the companies, right? And they don’t have a roadmap to mature these three layers as they continue to grow their business. So that makes it, uh, you know, scalable organization. Uh, and that’s what I learned this common denominator to mature these three layers of your

Katie Hankinson (20:17):

Business. That’s so interesting. And I I’d love to know, we talked a bit about this before, um, specifically around small businesses, like some of the classic mistakes that small businesses make, um, when it comes to data processes, customer experiences, what would you say are some of those pitfalls that you come across time to time again?

Rajesh Sinha (20:37):

And I’ll go back to my story. Yeah. And one mistake I made at that time is when you, when you are small, you have budget constraint and, uh, you don’t have so many resources with you. So you try to buy something mm-hmm <affirmative>, which is right for you. But it’s also cheaper if I go back in time and, uh, you know, hindsight, if I have to invest, I’ll invest now on a expensive and better platform. I spend more money on that because that’s scalable platform. So five years back, we made a decision on SAP, our size of companies. They don’t buy SAP mm-hmm <affirmative>, but when you buy a good platform like SAPs and Salesforce and integrate everything together, your business gets powered to grow bigger and faster. So when you throw peanuts, some friends said, you’ll get monkeys, you know <laugh>. So when you are really in a big hole and you are trying to build a bigger organization, don’t throw peanuts, you know, spend your money, uh, in a right place and build a better structure, better systems because good foundation will give you scale to your business. You know?

Katie Hankinson (21:45):

And especially when there’re the things around data processes and customer service, like I think, yeah, the idea of you make small investments and you make those investments in silos, then you are completely hampering your ability to

Rajesh Sinha (21:58):

Exactly

Katie Hankinson (21:59):

Meaningfully.

Rajesh Sinha (22:00):

Exactly.

Katie Hankinson (22:02):

Mm. So I have a couple other questions. Mm-hmm <affirmative> one is, we’ve talked about a lot of these learnings, um, this, this kind of principle of fluid thinking mm-hmm <affirmative> of what digital transformation means today and how to kind of build resilient businesses and all of this is laid out in your book. So I can, I think you should tell us a bit about the book and when it’s coming out and when we’ll be able to get, get a hands on it.

Rajesh Sinha (22:27):

Sure. Uh, the book is called, as you said, digital operating model, the future of work. So what I learn over the period of time that people come with all kinds of problem. I go into a conference room and there’ll be 10 people sitting. They’ll define the problem. And as you call me digital doctors. So as a doctor, I listen to their problem. They have as is, and they want to be mm-hmm

Katie Hankinson (22:49):

<affirmative>

Rajesh Sinha (22:49):

Right. Everyone’s as is everyone wants to be mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I was like, everyone has the same problem, but that I go to the university, I go to hospital, I go to financial institutions or insurance company. They all have a similar problem as is to be. And when you are trying to give them to be roadmap, many times what they need and what they want that is disconnecting their own minds. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so as a good doctor, if you try to help them understand it, clearly try to give them some platform, which they have not thought through, what else it can deliver to you. Then you become a more successful doctor. So then I thought like, if everybody has a similar problem, even everybody pays hundred thousand hundreds of thousands of dollars and million dollars for us to build systems. Why can’t we give them everyone a recipe of the success and growth through a study format. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and that’s where all these companies stories from 5 million to 5 billion is in that book and defining a common denominator to grow exponentially. So that’s what the book is. Book is, you know, published by Wiley and, uh, it’ll be available on Amazon by end of this year, by January 1st, second week, it’ll be available for pre-order. And hopefully by March, it’ll be in your hands, you know,

Katie Hankinson (24:08):

In my hands <laugh> well, I look so the digital operating well, the future of work, a topic, a burning subject in most people’s minds, very excited to read.

Rajesh Sinha (24:18):

Of course, that will be great. And I’m very excited as well. It has been a big journey to bring all the stories together and make it simple because topic is so complex and you started the conversation that digital transformation, nobody knows where it starts, where it ends. Hopefully this book will, uh, that many books written on this topic, but hopefully this book will give real stories of real businesses, of real people

Katie Hankinson (24:45):

And real transformation,

Rajesh Sinha (24:46):

Real transformation. And that will connect them with everyone. Whether you are a student or you’re professional you’re executives or you’re entrepreneurs, when you read it, you’ll feel like I’m living that life mm-hmm <affirmative>. And there is a story by somebody telling me how they failed and how they succeeded. So that’s what this book is awful and starts with the denominator and ends with the recipe of growth and how they can transform themselves by these inspiring stories. So that’s what the book is all about. Oh, let’s hope keeping the fingers crossed for people who like it, you know, and reduce will enjoy this journey.

Katie Hankinson (25:19):

I’m sure they will. Um, my last question is our classic pilots checklist question, the building while firing question, when you are building while flying, it is important to keep calm under pressure. So when you are backs against the wall and you are faced with a tough decision for your business, what is your internal checklist? And this is quite meta because I feel like the whole book’s about this, um, that helps you get through it. What is your kind of in the moment, ability to make decisions?

Rajesh Sinha (25:47):

So, you know, you have to listen to all the perspective when you are making a decision, don’t get influenced by one side of the story. So you get a 360 degree view of the problem through data, through information. Before you make the decisions. Today, we run the company with a democratic approach. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the future of organizations. I call it also in the book is it’s going to be democratic. You can’t run it like autocratic business, like in de like us and India, you have three council, executive legislative mm-hmm <affirmative> judicial the same way. When you build your businesses, it helps you in decision making, right? You don’t have to take all the decisions. So maybe myself, CEO, CFOs, we are all part of executive council. Then we have a governing council. They have also separate power, like HR security compliances. So if they can overrule some of our decisions, right?

Rajesh Sinha (26:38):

And then we have legislative, you know, council. So people who are running business unit, the business leaders from different departments, they need empowerment. They are like member of parliament, you know, and they, they have their own say to run the business. So once you have checks and balances of running the company, you know, you can run a better organization tomorrow, and then you distribute the decision, making, decentralize it to different authority and structure. So you may not have to take decisions, everything by yourself, because if I had to take all the decisions, then I’m the bottleneck for the company. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So you distribute through democratic philosophy, but there are some big decisions you have to take. So I would say that, listen, as a doctor’s mind, listen to everyone, take all the data. If the decision can wait for a day, give some time to think over it, what you make decision today evening. And by tomorrow morning, you might make some different decisions, so sleep over it. And then if you believe in it, go for it. Even though there is a, you will make a mistake, but have a culture of learning. You know, we all make mistakes. So at least you made a decision thought through decision and, uh, that’s the best you can do.

Katie Hankinson (27:46):

Mm. The true fluid growth mindset that we talked

Rajesh Sinha (27:50):

About. Yes, of course. That’s the future. You know,

Katie Hankinson (27:52):

I love that.

Rajesh Sinha (27:52):

because fluid takes shape of any, you know, uh, um, utensil vessel, any vessels, right? So if you put in a glass, the water water is in that ship. If you put in a cup, it’s in that ship. So you have to that liquid, it will take the shape in whatever vessel you will keep

Katie Hankinson (28:08):

It in. And in this case, it is the vessel of a highly democratic organization, which is delightful.

Rajesh Sinha (28:14):

Absolutely. That’s where the generation alpha and Z and after millennial, they’re all looking for, um, purposeful companies. Yeah. Where every day they’re slogging, they’re making the world a better place to live and work. They are, they want to get inspired by colleagues and the vision of the company. And that’s where we are headed.

Katie Hankinson (28:33):

Community autonomy and contribution.

Rajesh Sinha (28:36):

Oh, that’s a powerful one. I never heard that, but that’s a good one.

Katie Hankinson (28:38):

I just came up with that <laugh>

Rajesh Sinha (28:41):

Community economy because I call now the future after digital transformation is deep digital intelligence experience economy. Ooh. So with platform. So that’s how the deep comes in. So data makes you intelligent experience is everything is all about in future because it’s nothing about product and services and the day you’re selling experience. And that comes with the platform mindset. So platform helps you deliver intelligence and experience to your customers. So

Katie Hankinson (29:10):

We’ll all be operating on a platform in years come. I, I, it’s funny higher percentages. EV each year we work on more platform brands for this exact reason.

Rajesh Sinha (29:19):

I think, yeah, everything is going to be future is platform earlier. We used to call network effects. The power is platform effects. Now mm-hmm <affirmative> and platform EF. Once you build a bigger platform, you create a small, small assets on the top of the platform that gives you major growth than your bigger platform gives you the growth. That’s the platform of platform thinking to a small dent on your platform or small acceleration on your platform gives you higher growth than platform itself. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so that’s the power of platform thinking and platform organization. I love that. <laugh>

Katie Hankinson (29:53):

Well, Jess, thank you so much.

Rajesh Sinha (29:55):

Oh, it was wonderful. Having chat with you. Great. Thank you. Getting deeper and deeper. So thank you. And thank you for having me today. Nice. Really enjoyed it. I did too. Thank you.

Katie Hankinson (30:06):

Thanks for joining us for building while flying today. I hope you learned as much as we did. We’ll meet you right back here. Next time for another flight.

Mickey Cloud (30:17):

If you’d like to hear more about how business owners and brands are navigating these times tune into the next episode. And if you’re so kind, please rate and review us, plus we’d love feedback. So let us know what you think, what you’d like us to dig into next on building while flying across brands, businesses, marketing, and more

Katie Hankinson (30:32):

Original music by Fulton street music group.